Below is all I was able to save out of a Eudora old mail crash-and-trash. I was trying to find out what the deal is on Tribal Voice. I'd alreeady made several inquiries and received some emails offering me T-shirts and the like.
Actually I wasn't really wondering if this was a suitable site to link-to for Indian kids. In his first email to me, McAfee implies Indian people don't understand their own traditional Indian culture and history because we're all corrupted by powwows, but he really knows. He takes his spiritual endeavors very seriously.
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 00:45:20 -0600
Reply-To: John McAfee
X-Sender: scuz@usa.net
To: pgiese@gold.tc.umn.edu
From: scuz@usa.net (john mcafee)
Subject: Re: (no subject)
>>I recently started a website that's intended for Indian kids & schools
>>(i.e. reservations, some may be in cities). It's at:
>>
>>http://hanksville.phast.umass.edu/~pgiese/
>>
We have seen it. A good job.
>>School is out now, I'm working on getting it ready over the summer. One
>>of its contents is link pointers to othr web resources for schools. As
>>you can imagine, there's lots of science/math, and there are actually
>>lots more Indian resources that you fellows list. It's all pretty serious
>>stuff, and teenagers like to relax and joke around some of the time. So I
>>was interested in Tribal Voice as a "resource" for that approach.
This is probably not an appropriate site for teenagers. We are focused on
adult issues.
>>Tribal Voice appears to me to be a commercial venture. There's nothing
>>wrong with that, there are a number of Indian commercial ventures on the
>>web already--mostly art sellers, but also textile dealers (for Navajo
>>Mills and Oneida's new venture). In your case I can't quite make out what
>>the deal is.
That's our point. Tribal Voice exists so that people can find out what the
deal is. It is not a simple process. We are not selling. Or asking for
anything. Neither are we explaining. If you want a simple answer there is
none. If you find anything of value, that's good. If you don't, that's OK.
>>, though, do you plan to sell advertising?
We do not.
>> The "pow-wow"--is
>>it a sort of email matching service like Great Expectations? I', really
>>puzzled by it, because it seems to be pretty much like any data
>>directory, and you say to use this powwow software--why?
It is not Email. It allows people to talk to each other in real-time
accross the net. We are not matching anyone with anyone. If you want to use
it fine. If not fine. We are indifferent.
>>"If it is
>>running, you can click on the person's name and email...but that's
>>already true with your use of the server's mailto: function,
Mail is not real time. PowWow allows you to "ring" another person's computer.
>>There's also some remarks about the "Yuppi catalog" page tro the effect
>>that Mosaic browsers will be able to see something about the credit cards
>>Netscape can't...like what? Or is this humor?
Again, this is the point. Is it humor? What is it? We say over and over
that you must find out for yourself on our Web pages. We certainly cannot
tell you.
>>To be frank with you, I have some misgivings about linking Tribal Voice
>>as a "resource" for some of the teenagers.
So would we.
>>I get the point.
We don't think so. But we could be wrong.
>>I think Monroe, who obviously is not really in
>>contact with his own tribal roots.
We respectfully, but strongly, disagree.
>>if your appeal is primarily
>>to yuppie types, you should rethink your title, approach, and servername.
We have no Yuppie users. We have no interest in Yuppies. We have no
discourse with Yuppies.
Ms. Giese, it's clear from your various letters to us that you find us
either an enigma, or an offense, or perhaps both. We do not wish to clash
with anyone, but what we are doing here, we take great pride in. We take it
very seriously. The Native American culture and spiritual base, despite the
recent rise of a multi-tribal culture, as expressed in the regional and
national powwows being held with increasing regularity and attendance, is a
shadow of its original depth and grace. The systematic restrictions imposed
by the U.S. government with express purpose of stamping out any aspect of
Native American culture that deviates from the accepted white anglo-saxon
norm has not ceased, nor has the average Native American ceased buying into to rationalizations offered by the government.
I would ask you to consider what you mean when you use the term "tradional" Native American. Do you mean traditions that go back a mere five generations to a time after the imposition of Christianity, the English
language, White man's morality. The banning of the Ghost Dance. The
education of Native children in white-man's schools? Or do you mean a mere ten generations? To a time when the Plains Indian life had already been altered beyond recognition by the systematic thrust of the white onslaught that pushed tribes into unfamiliar territories, forcing radical changes in custom just to ensure survival. Or perhaps you mean 15 generations, to a time when the Spaniards introduced the horse, and disease to a continent unprepared. To a time when 90% of many tribes perished because disease found a population with no antibodies. The reamaining 10% left with 90% of their oral history occluded. Or perhaps further back, to a time before scalping was introduced by the French. Before the concept of money had begun to`pervert the harmony of a language with no concept of "ownership".
What is it that you mean by traditional? If you mean the practice of
"judging" dancers at powwow, of re-defining "tradition" to "accomodate" the
white man's morality, of elevating pomp and display above the fundamental
beauty of humility, then yes, you will find no tradition here.
We are very busy Ms. Giese. If you find anything of value here, cherish it
and go in peace. If you do not, avoid it, and go in peace.
John McAfee
____________________________________________________________
John McAfee Suite 210, 627 W. Midland Ave.
Tribal Voice Software Woodland Park, CO 80863
Phone: 719 687 0480 Fax: 719 687 8176
____________________________________________________________
Unfindable is an email where he offers me 10 web pages on his site, uncensored by Tribal Voice. I was at that time looking for a permannt, non-developmental site, preferably on an Indian-run server.
In the next back-and-forth sending multi-quoted thing, you may be puzzled by the reference to Satanism. I'd written a long indignant expose of Tribal Voice to a private email listserv, whose particpants are (mostly) Native people. I said to them that the deliberate desecrations of a number of sacred rites, objects, revered persons for a number of Indian religions corresponded in some sense to Satanism for Christianity (Satanstic rites deliberately desecrate a number of Christian symbols), though for Native religions that comparison doesn't make too much sense.
Also I wondered (and still do) if the U.S. government is backing Tribal Voice. Of course they are with our tax dollars, since it's set up as an educational-charitable trust tax dodge, to or of which Indian people are supposed to be beneficiaries. Someone from the private list forwarded it to scuz@usa.net, McAfee's email. McAfee's reply was so odd, I couldn't believe he was a multimillionaire corporate owner. He is, though, as you'll see at the end, here.
>>Ms. Giese,
>>
>> It's unfair to expect us to admit to being BOTH satanists, AND
>>government employees. We'll admit to one or the other but absolutely NOT
>>both. I mean, Satan wants people to choose evil. Stumbling into it won't
>>work. In order to CHOOSE anything, you must have a brain. How can you have
>>a brain AND be a government employee? On the other hand, if we were
>>government employees, how would we find the time to do any evil with all the
>>beaurocracy we'd have to deal with?
>>
>> Your letter has opened a Pandoras box here at Tribal Voice. Some of
>>my people are now insisting to be Government folks, others want to be
>>Satanists. One of them has even decided he wants to be a little blue elf,
>>and insists that everyone else treat him like an elf. It's turning into chaos.
>>
>> We'll admit to being anything you like. Well, not anything maybe.
>>I'd be embarrassed to have to admit to being gay, for example. Or being a
>>social worker. But most anything else is OK. But you've got to be
>>reasonable. We simply cannot, and will not, admit to being both Satanists
>>and government employees. Are there any alternate things we could admit to
>>that might please you just as well?
>>
>>Sincerely, your servant,
>>
>>John McAfee
>>
>>Oh, and Paula, please don't keep putting the "a" between the "M" and the "c"
>>in my name. Jamie Reynolds used to do that when I was in 2nd grade just to
>>annoy me. It's one of those things that's stuck with me. You know,
>>unexplainable subconcious stimuli left over from childhood traumatic
>>experiences. It makes me want to go eat dirt. Embarrassing for an adult.
>>You understand. Thank you.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>____________________________________________________________
>>John McAfee Suite 210, 627 W. Midland Ave.
>>Tribal Voice Software Woodland Park, CO 80863
>>Phone: 719 687 0480 Fax: 719 687 8176
>>____________________________________________________________
>>
Below, these came from the McAfee Associates software company website, when I wrote to the email address given for corresponding with that company, from thir coprorate web page, as I tried to find out if "scuz@usa.net" who signed himself John McAfee was in fact founder, board chairman, etc. Though one employee answering ducked the question, the other makes it quite clear he is the principal of Tribal Voice.
The McAfee WWW Server is available for easy access to the latest McAfee products, McAfee product information and
company information. McAfee is pleased to offer access through the World-Wide Web Server Internet system. We are always
open to suggestions from our users. If you want to suggest an idea to us, please leave a message addressed to
webroot@mcafee.com. We will try to address each item on a timely manner. Thank You.
To: webroot@mcafee.com
Subject: John McAfee
Author: Paula Giese
Date: 6/14/95 3:42 PM
Is there a principal in your company named John McAfee who uses the email address:
scuz@usa.net?
Does your company sponsor and/or run a server for a set of web pages
called "Tribal Voice" and running at
http://www.tribal.com
Is your company connected with a Tribal Software, Inc., operating from an
address at Ste 210, 627 West Midland Ave., Woodland Park, Co, 80863?
I would appreciate a reply, as I have received 2 communications from a
person whose email address was scuz@usa.net, signing himself John McAfee. This same person has told others he is the founder or a principal figure and/or multimillionaire retiree (seem to be sedveral versions) of McAfee Associates. Is this so?
If this person in fact is the president and board chairman of your
company, why does he use such a peculiar email address?
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Received: by ccmail from mcafee.com
>From pgiese@gold.tc.umn.edu
X-Envelope-From: pgiese@gold.tc.umn.edu
Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by mcafee.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
Paula,
Yes, John McAfee is the founder of our company, and does currently run
a company called Tribal Voice.
Kelly Lucas
McAfee Inc.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Paula,
There is in fact a person named John McAfee, whether is connected
with Tribal Software or not we don't know. Not from this facility
anyway...he will have to be the one to confirm or deny this..Why he has
such peculiar email address. I really couldn't say...If you are in touch with
him..ask him, I'm sure he wil tell you..
Regards,
BJ
Subject: John McAfee
Author: Paula Giese at mcafee-internet
Date: 6/14/95 3:42 PM
Received: by ccmail from mcafee.com
Personnel overlap (spring, 1995) between the companies McAfee Associates, Inc and Tribal Voice, Inc., is suggested by the following evidence (from Inter-Nic databases):
The following is their domain listing info:
Tribal Voice Software (TRIBAL2-DOM)
617 Midland Ave. Suite 210
Woodland Park, CO 80863-1100
Domain Name: TRIBAL.COM
Administrative Contact:
Crawford, Vernon (VC34) vernon@RMII.COM
(719) 687-0480
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Phillips, Chris (CP3) ckp@RMII.COM
(719) 576-6845
Record last updated on 23-Feb-95.
On the "Navajo Witches from Black Mesa" page Vern Crawford is IDed as
having been "witched" by the creepy characters "the Boss" brought back from
Black Mesa to work on TV. Chris Phillips does not appear as a "character" or
an apparent email respondent that I found on the TV pages.
Also from InterNIC database:
McAfee Associates (MCAFEE-DOM)
2710 Walsh Avenue
Santa Clara, CA 95051-0963
Domain Name: MCAFEE.COM
Administrative Contact:
Goretsky, Aryeh (AG106) aryehg@MCAFEE.COM
(408) 988-3832
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Schweers, Morgan (MS204) mrs@NETCOM.COM
(408) 739-9653
Record last updated on 13-Jan-95.
Aryeh Goretsky is the "token White Man" listed on the TV opening menu as
reviewer, who both is described (allegedly by the Indians who really run TV)
and describes himself with a sniggering racism which has been cleaned up a
little yesterday. Establishes personnel connection between McAfee As-
sociates and TV. Morgan Schweers is not otherwise identified than by this
datarecord.
A different person's InterNic search produced a more recent record for TV:
Tribal Voice Software (NET-TRIBAL-NET)
617 Midland Ave. Suite 210
Woodland Park, CO 80863-1100
US
Netname: TRIBAL-NET
Netnumber: 204.227.15.0
Coordinator:
Phillips, Chris (CP3) ckp@RMII.COM
(719) 576-6845
Record last updated on 13-Apr-95.
Here is the publicly determinable status of Tribal Voice Inc.'s web-service network as of summer 1995. Some sort of initial Indian game plan is obvious from the Tribal Voice, Inc. workstation naming:
*** This is the list of machines at Tribal:
tribal.com. SOA ns1.rockymtn.net ckp.rockymtn.net.
(18150100 21600 900 604800 43200)
tribal.com. NS ns1.rockymtn.net
tribal.com. MX 30 mail2.rockymtn.net
tribal.com. MX 10 popmail.rmii.com
tribal.com. MX 20 mail.rockymtn.net
tribal.com. A 204.227.15.1
pawnee A 204.227.15.8
apache A 204.227.15.5
chumash A 204.227.15.11
comanche A 204.227.15.10
choctaw A 204.227.15.9
mohican A 204.227.15.17
sioux A 204.227.15.4
mail CNAME APACHE.tribal.com
www A 204.227.15.1
arapaho A 204.227.15.6
piute A 204.227.15.7
tribal.com. SOA ns1.rockymtn.net ckp.rockymtn.net.
(18150100 21600 900 604800 43200)
*** These are the folks logged into apache.tribal.com, which is probably
their UNIX machine and mail handler:
Login Name TTY Idle When Where
etb Eric T. Beteille pts/0 21: Mon 16:33 serf.uccs.edu
etb Eric T. Beteille pts/1 2d Sun 22:53 serf.uccs.edu
etb Eric T. Beteille pts/5 7 Wed 14:24 super7.uccs.edu
etb Eric T. Beteille pts/3 21: Tue 09:06 serf.uccs.edu
vernon Vernon Crawford pts/6 18: Wed 12:15 sioux.tribal.com
etb Eric T. Beteille pts/9 6 Wed 14:25 super7.uccs.edu
***These are valid IDs on apache, though they are not logged in:
[apache.tribal.com]
Login Name TTY Idle When Where
chuck Chuck Monroe < . . . . >
chameleon:/usr/local/named# finger john@apache.tribal.com
[apache.tribal.com]
Login Name TTY Idle When Where
scuz John D. McAfee < . . . . >
Below a similar analysis was conductd in a puyblicly-permissible manner (i.e. using normal internet tools such as Finger) on McAfee Associates' interNet-visible corporate network:
***These are the machines at McAfee:
aardvark A 192.187.128.16
ant A 192.187.128.37
basilisk A 192.187.128.50
cc A 192.187.128.14
cinnamon A 192.187.128.14
cthulhu A 192.187.128.48
cyberdemon A 192.187.128.20
demon A 192.187.128.15
dolphin A 192.187.128.12
dragon A 192.187.128.43
elephant A 192.187.128.33
falcon A 192.187.128.22
ftp A 192.187.128.3
gryphon A 192.187.128.42
husky A 192.187.128.45
imp A 192.187.128.4
lion A 198.211.28.100
lostsoul A 192.187.128.10
lynx A 192.187.128.13
magdanoz A 192.187.128.6
manticore A 192.187.128.47
marsupilami A 198.211.28.121
mcafee.com. A 192.187.128.1
mcafee.com. NS netcomsv.netcom.com
mcafee.com. NS ns.netcom.com
mcafee.com. NS ns1.noc.netcom.net
mcafee.com. NS ns2.noc.netcom.net
mcafee.com. SOA ns1.noc.netcom.net
hostmaster.netcom.com. (95022600 70000 4000
400000 100000)
mcafee.com. SOA ns1.noc.netcom.net
hostmaster.netcom.com. (95022600 70000 4000
400000 100000)
mole A 192.187.128.35
netcomsv.netcom.com. A 192.100.81.101
ns.netcom.com. A 192.100.81.105
ns1.noc.netcom.net. A 204.31.1.1
ns2.noc.netcom.net. A 204.31.1.2
ostrich A 192.187.128.21
pegasus A 192.187.128.40
phoenix A 192.187.128.32
pterodactyl A 192.187.128.36
rat A 192.187.128.46
rhino A 192.187.128.34
robin A 192.187.128.44
sargeant A 192.187.128.9
scorpion A 198.211.28.99
shark A 192.187.128.8
shubinternet A 192.187.128.49
snake A 192.187.128.17
spectre A 192.187.128.18
spiderdemon A 192.187.128.23
storm A 192.187.128.99
swan A 192.187.128.19
tiger A 192.187.128.11
trooper A 192.187.128.5
unicorn A 192.187.128.41
viper A 198.211.28.122
vixen A 192.187.128.2
vorpalbunny A 192.187.128.39
wolf A 198.211.28.169
worm A 192.187.128.38
www A 192.187.128.7
The McAfee Associates, Inc. (Santa Clara, CA) net workstation list shows no discernible workstation overlap with Tribal Voice Inc.(Colorado Springs, CO). It also shows no interest or preoccupation with Indians, in relation to workstation naming conventions used by McAfee staff, but perhaps an interest in fantasy role-playing games, which they could have stuck to as their metaphor, instad of picking on Native Americans. Workstation naming at McAfee Associates does not support the idea that John McAfee ever had any interest in or knowledge about Indian people, prior to setting up Tribal Voice.
What's been happening lately at Tribal Voice: The action revolves around the Powwow Software. A considerable number of free services are being offered to make its use more attractive. These include the formation of "Powwow tribes" who have a common interest. If users do not have their own web site to do this, an outfit with the domain name geo.1701tribes, identifying itself as a computer software store, will provide free drive space and a free web pag for "registering tribal members and arranging meeting times" Some "Culture section" tribes include www.dope.com (server down or spurious) and the elders tribee (older people, not Nativ elders). On the geographically-arranged section, those with websites arranged by 1701 for fre space on its server include Guatemala Tribe; New South Africa Tribe, Montana Tribe, Wisconsin Tribe. Those not arranged by 1701 include Taino Indian Tribe (a screen identifying the organizer as a computer engineer in the Domenican Republic). There are not very many Powwow software tribes, as yet.
Whether or not the tribe-founder has a web site, it is ncessary to register the tribe with Tribal Voice, and necessary for people joining to be registered as members with Tribal Voice logs.
Other free services: you can display a small picture of yourself to other Powwow participants. If you don't have one, send a photo; it will be scanned and prepared for you. If you'd like to use a photo that's been made to appear handsomer, younger, etc., a service will do this for you. All free.
Name analysis: tell this service provider your true name and its meaning will be analyzed for you. Powwow website: You can make your site a recruitment place for the use of this software, and "meetings" that I'm not too clear about since I would never let this stuff on any machine I have anything to do with, so I can't observe it in action, but must go by descriptions.
In general how Powwow works (for Windows PC's only) is that a database of information on each registered user is kept by Tribal Voice, Inc. on its network. The Powwow software is memory-resident, and opens each computer (or networks) it runs on to contact and chatting, tripping, tribalizing, etc., from any other user. It may or may not plant a piece of itself in hidden ways in user systems (i.e. so you couldn't actually get rid of it or actually "turn it off". That would be rather hard to determine, and ought to be grounds for uneasiness about it. Tribal Voice offers a Yellow Page service for businesses that use it.
It is necessary -- the way that th Powwow software works -- that rcords are created of each cyber Powwow between individuals or groups, and these records must certainly be kept in thir database throughout any web-tours carried out via Powwow with a tour leader. In the normal course of events, such records might be erased after Powwows, but they don't have to be. The volume must be tremendous, since thre are hundreds of thousands of Powwow users all over the world.
Vast quantities of information have, in the past, created a sort of problem for those who would surveil all. Databases, and database programming is a powerful tool, especially if you can get the desired information to be input directly into your database without any labor costs to your organization or agency. If this were an experiment, developing the tactic, interesting individuals and groups could be data-tagged, then all their Powwow activities (conversations, group meetings, group web travels) could be recorded in a way which has them already prepared for future analysis. Not necessarily on the Tribal Voice premises or computers.
Whether or not any of this is done is at the sole discretion of Tribal Voice, Inc.
Most of the free services, like the Powwow software itself, appear to be ways to attract and centralize a great deal of information about individuals, corporations (because some are using it) and political groups who participate. The method is cost-effective, because the people, businesses and groups are attracted by the glitz and all the freebies to effctively provide this info about themselves, to engage in activitis making other info available about themselves, and to recruit others to do so also. It offloads almost all th labor of gathering such info onto the people and groups it is gathered about.
At the present time, Powwow has no functional competitors, whether free or commercial. That's because th software itself is comparatively unimportant. It is Tribal Voice, Inc.'s database tracking that makes it work, which is an operation both expensive to set up and costly to maintain. The average software company could not undertake it, because they are set up to develop product, not to maintain a constant, rather demanding, data tracking service, similar in some ways to a telephone company's computeried methods of putting callers in contact with each other, although the phone central switch computers need only track phone numbers, except for billing purposes.
It would be particularly difficult for a competitor to get started when the competition already dominated the market -- with both products and services it gives away entirely for free. Tribal Voice has no competitors, though there are a few Internet chat services, some on websites, that can't offer all the glitz and group-features, nor reach out to ring up someone else's computer-modem.
An individual who implemented the Powwow software on his (non-defense) U.S. government agency network told me he was sure it was Ok, because of McAfee Associates' network security software experience (many government agencies are clients). This is a bit of reassurance I don't find a bit reassuring
Visible means of support is another kind of indicator. If Tribal Voice, Inc. employs 10 persons whose gross pay averages $24K/year, then the monthly payroll is $20,000. A variety of other expenses (space rental, phone and network charges, etc.) add at least another $30,000 to monthly operating costs, and there is a considerable capital investment in the setup. So this is an apparent minimum operating cost of about $50,000/month with no discernible way they are generating income. I think that's a relevant fact to ponder. Where is this money coming from? Why?
Memo prepared by Paula Giese, Sunday, July 21, 1996 - 7:56:06 AM